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Anon
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2.3 Petrol Engine £2k Disaster

A partial engine rebuild by a local garage has gone disastrously wrong and I am urgently in need of sound advice please.
Engine had lost compression - probably from running unleaded and LPG on the original head.
Engine seemed otherwise fine, had never clanked or burned oil.
On collection last Friday, the van was belching thick blue oil smoke from the exhaust. Garage said it was just excess oil burning off in the bores from the rebuild.
After 100 miles it was still smoking just as badly. Up to 40 mph under very gentle acceleration the engine was as smooth and quiet as any Bedford can be. Under moderate acceleration and 45 mph the engine now makes a loud clattering. Difficult to say where the noise is coming from. I am embarrassed to say I paid £2000 for this result!
The rebuild was skimmed head, conversion to unleaded, new valves, new piston rings and new big end shells (though the latter didn't really need doing.)Block was NOT reground or rebored as the garage said it wasn't needed.
Garage says smoke is because "the piston rings need time to bed in." They say this is common when old engines are rebuilt. They say they don't know what the clatter is. Any advice on this would be very gratefully received - the likely causes of the problems, what to get the garage to check and how to deal with them. Thank you

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Wed 26 Mar 2014 @ 06:14 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Personally, I would take legal advise on this.

I have rebuilt several engine's some new and some 40 years old and have never had an issue with blue smoke from the exhaust or a rattle.

Possible causes for smoke.
valve stem seals not fitted (although I would not expect this to belch smoke)
Piston rings damaged when fitting
Piston ring gaps aligned when fitting
Cylinder bores not correctly hones or are in need of a rebore
Incorrect piston rings fitted
Head gasket failure between oil way and a cylinder

Possible causes fo rattle
Engine has burnt all its oil
Incorrect bearings fitted
Tappets not adjusted correctly

Also when rebuilding an engine cleanlyness is paramount, everything must be spotlessly clean at all times. Any dust or swarf that is left in the engine could very well turn into a grinding paste resulting in very quick engine failure.

The "repairing" garage either need to put it right FOC or give you your money back. Like I say the rattle could just be as simple as tappet adjustment but the engine should not have blue smoke coming from the exhaust. If this was one of mine I would be stripping it down and starting again.

Good luck

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Wed 26 Mar 2014 @ 09:17 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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terrible story you paid alot and seem to have gotten ripped off i agree get legal advise and i wish good luck and hope its sorted for the summer

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Wed 26 Mar 2014 @ 20:36 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Gethin
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I totally agree with what Mister E is saying .

Ive rebuilt loads of engines and the only time I had problems was when I took short cuts and did not hone the bores.

Trading standards would be my next step
Thu 27 Mar 2014 @ 19:26 View Gethin   Email Gethin   Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Thanks for the advice guys.
Since I posted, the engine has been removed - and guess what ? The bores are seriously worn probably requiring a rebore and new pistons (awaiting confirmation tomorrow)! The garage have admitted they did not measure the bores for either size or ovality - just fitted new standard rings ! Neither did they measure the big end journals and just fitted standard shells. Obviously this should have been checked on initial strip down, I should have been told and would have called a halt to the rebuild. I could have got an Adrian Bailey full recon engine for £1995 plus VAT.
Even if the garage pay for a rebore and new pistons the crank is likely to be worn I'd have thought, trouble just round the corner there.
Wonder what you guys make of this, too: Garage had problems with setting the valve clearances on the re machined cylinder head. When they replaced the cam housing after trying to find the cause of the faults they said they could not get the valve clearances right because they'd destroyed the thin gasket between cam housing and head. It is 1 mm thick !!! Does this mean the work on the head is faulty too and I'll have tappet adjustment problems ?
In all I think I've got to demand my money back and buy an Adrian Bailey engine with a warranty.
Sun 30 Mar 2014 @ 11:10 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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I think you are absolutely right to demand full money back. If they quibble threaten them with Trading standards or one of those t.v. "Cowboy" programmes

They sound like a bunch of complete amateurs.

Best of luck.

Pete.

P.S. you should perhaps consider letting us know who they are so we can avoid them?
Sun 30 Mar 2014 @ 11:35 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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2.3 engine rebuild

hi I have ordered a rebuild engine from baileys. the price is £1995 including vat. he gives you an update each week to let you know how the work is processing admittedly originally I was told it would take about two weeks to complete but that was extended as they had to source hardened valves from Belgium. I am looking forward to getting the engine very soon, and as you say having a warranty makes you feel better knowing you have one.
Sun 30 Mar 2014 @ 22:59 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
Anon
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Now £3k lighter and much wiser !

To cut a ridiculously long story short, I ended up having the bottom end of the engine rebuilt as well as the head - rebore, new pistons/rings, new big end journals etc - total cost now almost £3k! After more than 15 weeks I got the van back, with the engine running sweetly......but then to my horror discovered it still smokes on cold start and has a major oil leak from the rear crank oil seal. I demanded my money back but once again the garage tried to fob me off with excuses and ludicrous explanations, so I had commission an independent engineer's report from Dekra Expert. This confirmed the engine performs well but attributed the smoke on cold start to oil getting past the valve guides in the rebuilt cylinder head, and also confirmed the oil leak.
After threatening court action I got some money back, but sadly I now have to recoup the rest of my big outlay by selling the van. It's an easy fix - an Adrian Bailey £499 rebuilt head and a new crank oilseal will sort it - and make a very usable camper that's had lots of other mechanical work done recently such as stainless exhaust, new brakes, fuel pump etc. See my Ad on this website - if no takers it goes on eBay shortly. Anyone interested can ring me on 07983 107875 for full details (little internet access at present)
Sun 08 Jun 2014 @ 12:18 Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
bluebedouin
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likaleica wrote:

.... sadly I now have to recoup the rest of my big outlay by selling the van. ...

You'll probably never get the full extent of your outlay back so I'd suggest keeping it & getting as much use out of it as you can.At least that way you'd get some enjoyment from the money you've spent.

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Sun 08 Jun 2014 @ 17:02 View bluebedouin   Email bluebedouin   Edit this messageQuote this messagePMQuote this message
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